X100 - Back to the Future

semilog said:
WRT the shutter, I just want to know what the sync speed is, and whether I can use 2nd curtain flash.
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I have never seen the sync. speed published or mentioned in hands-on reports...only the lightning bolt symbol in the jog-dial [back/right]
 
PKR said:
Electronically controlled vertical-travel focal-plane ? Any Specs.?
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It is unlikely to be a leaf-shutter. They are usually located within the optical train at the nodal point.

I have not seen mentioned anywhere whether the shutter is horizontal or vertical traveling, nor sync. speed.
 
Frankie said:
It is unlikely to be a leaf-shutter. They are usually located within the optical train at the nodal point.

I have not seen mentioned anywhere whether the shutter is horizontal or vertical traveling, nor sync. speed.
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I'm guessing (I can't remember if it's okay to guess here) they would use a proven unit; not an original design. Maybe a Copal variant. The Fuji engineers seem to lunch a lot with the Nikon bunch. I'll bet the shutter was discussed over some high-temp green tea. So, what has Nikon used in their APS-C cameras?
 
PKR said:
I'm guessing (I can't remember if it's okay to guess here) they would use a proven unit; not an original design. Maybe a Copal variant. The Fuji engineers seem to lunch a lot with the Nikon bunch. I'll bet the shutter was discussed over some high-temp green tea. So, what has Nikon used in their APS-C cameras?
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Despite being denounced right off as another "speculative thread", we all have to guess, deduce, interpolate...sometimes. Even when we get to hold the X100 in hand, we still have to take someone's word about some aspects at face value. So I underline things I believe [guess, deduce] since.

I have no first-hand proof that my great-great-grandfather ever existed. Yet logic dictates I must believe he did.

I do not have moderator rights here, but one RFF moderator highly interested in this thread will be keeping an eye on it as well. So, please guess...perhaps adopt my guessing emphasis as suggested.
 
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Well as deductions go.. i deduce the missing "long shutter speeds" are missing, as a trade off for a savings of battery life, for the electronically controlled, solenoid actuated (milliamp consuming) Vertically traveling electro-mechanical shutter.. solenoids are hungry for energy.. and that's why I love latching relays.. but that's OT.
 
PKR said:
......So, what has Nikon used in their APS-C cameras?
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Nikon APS-C cameras are all DSLR...correct? I have saved a cut-in-half image of the D2 and D3 and the shutter is not unusual looking.

I have been trying to find information on EVF camera shutters for sometime. The best image I have found was a cut-in-half Pany G1 where it clearly shows a shutter exists.

A useful description found was that the shutter is always open [for live-view], then closed [drain for exposure]...and open again [for a new exposure], then closed again [to terminate the new exposure]...then open again [for the next live view]. In short a close-open-close action in every shot.

[The X100 is said to support 5 fps continuous...which means the buffer has to be big enough for 5 RAW files to begin with, and 5 sets of C-O-C actions must be accomplished within 1 second. Assuming no long exposures was selected, that is 15 actuation per second...fast action!!!]

From the X100 VF images so far published, I have doubts whether the histogram was not just marketing license...because it would mean O/E VF will have to operate simultaneously. I have also seen in a Photokina hands-on video where a blind blocks off the OVF [front view] when the EVF is switched...so that the O/E views would not interfere with each other?

What else do we know or could be deduced???
 
In the Fuji website animation graphics about the hybrid VF, it mentions an AF target box overlaid on top of the optical viewfinder. This can't be done without a live-view sensor setup. In fact, without a mirror and/or pellicle system using PD AF, AF itself would be impossible otherwise. In the case of what we've already been told, it uses CD AF. This can only be implemented by a live-view setup, with the shutter open until time of exposure. So I'm almost certain it will close-open-close, then open again after exposure.**

Another thought, the camera is also supposed to shoot video. Gots to be live view for that to happen.

~Joe


**Unless they've figured out the holy grail "global shutter" technology.
 
Indeed, many of the overlay graphics, if not just marketing graphics, would have been impossible without live-view operating.
 
With a top shutter speed of 1/4000th of a second, I'm inclined to believe it is a focal plain shutter. Use of a focal plane shutter would also make it easier to leverage this body for an interchangeable lens camera in the future.

It is going to be fun watching what comes from Fuji. It has been in the past.
 
5 fps, live view, 1/4000 shutter speed... I sure hope that this shutter is built like a tank. A camera can look great and have wonderful features, but it must work and continue to work.
 
bwcolor said:
5 fps, live view, 1/4000 shutter speed... I sure hope that this shutter is built like a tank. A camera can look great and have wonderful features, but it must work and continue to work.
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My guess is that it will be a variant of the same Copal found in the Hexar and the G1/G2. Just a guess.
 
Space will be at a premium in the X100 body, with the intrusive lens, sensor with IR/AA filter, rear LCD, plus the complex viewfinder. It's smaller than the HRF and G1/G2, more like a CLE in size... which of course did have a horizontal-run focal plane shutter. So is there room for the Copal?

What about a rotary shutter, à la Pen F, updated to run faster? That one had flash sync at all speeds, too...
 
Doug said:
Space will be at a premium in the X100 body, with the intrusive lens, sensor with IR/AA filter, rear LCD, plus the complex viewfinder. It's smaller than the HRF and G1/G2, more like a CLE in size... which of course did have a horizontal-run focal plane shutter. So is there room for the Copal?

What about a rotary shutter, à la Pen F, updated to run faster? That one had flash sync at all speeds, too...
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Good points, especially considering that it needs to cover only an APS-C frame. Flash sync at 1/4000 (without Nikonian jiggery-pokery) – that there's a dream setup. Probably just a dream, of course...
 
I know to each their own, but I think flash sync speed is overrated unless you want to take unnatural looking fill-flash in harsh light. Sure, if it CAN sync at a high speed then why not, but it certainly would be among the last of the things I would worry about when buying a camera like this. I wouldn't think this would be a camera that would scream for use of flash...not like a medium format camera or a wedding-style DSLR. But, as I said, to each their own.
 
StuartR said:
I know to each their own, but I think flash sync speed is overrated unless you want to take unnatural looking fill-flash in harsh light. Sure, if it CAN sync at a high speed then why not, but it certainly would be among the last of the things I would worry about when buying a camera like this. I wouldn't think this would be a camera that would scream for use of flash...not like a medium format camera or a wedding-style DSLR. But, as I said, to each their own.
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Fuji has already announced, via a poster at Photokina, a flash as one of the four known accessories [the others are a two piece brown leather case, a vented straight lens hood and an adapter ring for focal length converters].

Maybe the Fuji flash will operate in a way suitable for the intents of the camera...besides, there is a dinky flash built into the body.
 
Yes, but has there ever been a serious camera in the last 30 years that did not have an accessory flash? Just because it comes with one doesn't mean it will be good or necessary...

But again, I hope it is good for the sake of people who like flash! It's just something I never find very useful in my own work, apart from occasionally with a studio lighting setup. But if you are a strobist, I hope it works well for you. I just meant to point out that I don't think flash will be a large consideration for most people interested in the camera...especially since it is f/2 and goes to ISO 12,800.
 
StuartR said:
Yes, but has there ever been a serious camera in the last 30 years that did not have an accessory flash? Just because it comes with one doesn't mean it will be good or necessary...

But again, I hope it is good for the sake of people who like flash! It's just something I never find very useful in my own work, apart from occasionally with a studio lighting setup. But if you are a strobist, I hope it works well for you. I just meant to point out that I don't think flash will be a large consideration for most people interested in the camera...especially since it is f/2 and goes to ISO 12,800.
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I am straightly "available light".

The built-in flash should be good enough to trigger slaves flash units.
 
Frankie said:
I am straightly "available light".

The built-in flash should be good enough to trigger slaves flash units.
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I have the impression that we are to expect better high ISO files from the X100 than from the X1. Now, this might just be my wishful thinking, but if this is your impression, then I have the following question(s):

Most believe that the sensor used will be the tried and true 12.3mpix from Sony. Isn't this the same sensor used in the Leica X1? If folks are expecting better 'available light', high ISO files when compared to the X1, is this simply due to the micro-lens arrangement, and/or do folks believe that Fuji will use a better A/D converter?
 
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