MCTuomey
Veteran
Ok. How was their reiliability and which option would you take?
DominikDUK
Well-known
If steve huff's images are a good example of what pictures the leica creates I have to say I am disgusted. They have neither the look nor the feel of a good B/W picture. But I still hope that they look better in reality.
Dominik
Dominik
DamenS
Well-known
In this thread there are two examples of the meaning of the word "moot" being rendered mute ...
Maybe the pricing on the 50mm Summicron APO is designed to make the 50mm Summilux seen downright cheap ? Personally, if I had that much money, I'd probably spend the extra to get the 50mm F0.95 instead.
I would think most people would be better off for the M10 announcement - I would assume it would have a recent sensor with much better resolution and DR, meaning you could have your colour and b/w and eat it.
Maybe the pricing on the 50mm Summicron APO is designed to make the 50mm Summilux seen downright cheap ? Personally, if I had that much money, I'd probably spend the extra to get the 50mm F0.95 instead.
I would think most people would be better off for the M10 announcement - I would assume it would have a recent sensor with much better resolution and DR, meaning you could have your colour and b/w and eat it.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
sojournerphoto
Veteran
I'm happy with walking down to the store and purchasing a roll of b/w film for £6
Sara, get yourself down to the online store of AG Photographic, ring Matt and order some black and white film at a more reasonable price. Plus you'll support a business that is genuinely supporting silver photographers and not have to go into jessops. Lots of wins to be savoured there.
Mike
tightsqueez
Well-known
Alrighty then…
My first M8 died (shutter fault) in Iraq on the very mission I took it. The replacement M8 was an absolute tank and never failed me. To this day I regret selling it to upgrade to the M9. Consider it the "1 in 5" camera that held much value.
The first M9 had to be replaced due to multiple dead rows of pixels.
Second M9 was okay but it needed to be remapped while I was in Afghanistan (an expensive mess that cost me months of shooting). Because of this I bought a second body, the M9-P. The logic was by having two bodies would somehow increase reliability. Well, that camera had quirks too. Depending on what SD card I had and which ISO I used, I never knew what it was going to do, e.g. color banding, random stripes, half frames, etc. And I won't even begin on the firmware issues!
And during my lovely ownership of all three M9's, I've had to replace batteries (not to mention countless battery issues within the camera) and two complete chargers! While none of the M9's failed me outright, they nickel-dimed me to the point I could not consider them reliable.
Tallying the total amount of time I was waiting on a replacement camera, part or repair and it adds up to an entire YEAR!
One of the positive notes about this experience was my Leica dealer, Camera West, was always going out on the limb to make things right. On that side of the house Leica did good.
I love the M9 output but hated the worry and fear of carrying one around. NEVER in my life have I felt that way with any of my film M's. For me this outweighed the positive aspects of owning a digital Leica. Until they get this right the extra time and effort with film is worth it.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
The announcement of the Leica Monochrom and its price tag has made all the difference: I'll just get another mint Epson R-D1s at one fifth of the cost.
emiguevara
Member
why all the hate?
why all the hate?
I simply don't get why people feel so irritated by a new and unique camera from a pricey company. Just get an idea of what it is, think if your bank account allows you to take the plunge and go on!
I will not be able to buy it, not in the near future at least. But I recognise that I would not mind at all having it.
To put it on perspective, here in Norway its price will be roughly equivalent to 1000 rolls of Tri-X (without processing costs). Since I shoot about 200 rolls of film every year (and some 10k digital frames too), the M9M would be payed for in about 5 years. Considering processing costs and time, I think it would be payed for in 3 years. If it only could completely satisfy the characteristics I like from B&W film, it would be totally worth it. Time and more images from the camera will tell.
why all the hate?
I simply don't get why people feel so irritated by a new and unique camera from a pricey company. Just get an idea of what it is, think if your bank account allows you to take the plunge and go on!
I will not be able to buy it, not in the near future at least. But I recognise that I would not mind at all having it.
To put it on perspective, here in Norway its price will be roughly equivalent to 1000 rolls of Tri-X (without processing costs). Since I shoot about 200 rolls of film every year (and some 10k digital frames too), the M9M would be payed for in about 5 years. Considering processing costs and time, I think it would be payed for in 3 years. If it only could completely satisfy the characteristics I like from B&W film, it would be totally worth it. Time and more images from the camera will tell.
I simply don't get why people feel so irritated by a new and unique camera from a pricey company. Just get an idea of what it is, think if your bank account allows you to take the plunge and go on!
To many of us, Leica M cameras are exactly what we like in a camera. However, many of us cannot afford to keep buying new things from Leica at this point. What was once just expensive, is now bordering on astronomical (in comparison to other companies). If you are into film, then you have many options. If you are into digital, you do not have the same options. Luckily Fuji makes some cool stuff, but they aren't mechnical RF cameras.
Tim Gray
Well-known
So you going to get one Jay? I want. The stories of M9 reliability scare me off. Then the price kidney punches me and kicks me down the steps.
I want. The stories of M9 reliability scare me off. Then the price kidney punches me and kicks me down the steps.victoriapio
Well-known
Although they have said otherwise, perhaps THIS Leica announcment will wake up Voightlander and Epson with a FF RD-2 :angel:
mrrobleyleica
Member
I'm in a similar situation, starting to worry how long the M9 will last after the warranty expires, it's a while to go. My experience would put me off buying another digi Leica, especially one costing over £6000. Mine is only about 8 months old but has been back to Solms twice for 5- 6 weeks per visit. The first time they did nothing but clean it and calibrate ignoring the long row of bad pixels, so it went back for a sensor remap I presume.
Leica here are brilliant and I had a loan camera, so not so bad.
I've had it back for a few weeks and it's doing a new odd thing. I really don't trust it now, it doesn't like SanDisc still so I must get new cards - and although I love most of the results and the m rangefinder concept, the joy of owning one is not as you'd expect.
Because I love the lenses I can't see a viable option other than extended warranty deals etc. Now there is an M9M option, but I'm not in a position to go down this new route, even if I had the money. If the M10 is a different beast (part made by someone reliable like Panasonic) I hope to trade up then, still depending on the cost.
I'm not a pro, but if I was I'd never use new Ms. I've been using Nikons since 1978 (that long, that feels bad) and other than one dead pixel on a D700 which was exchanged I've never had a problem.
anjoca76
Well-known
I love my Leicas. I have gotten rid of most all other gear in the past year because I realize that none of them bring me the same pleasure or results as they do. If I could afford an M9, even though I don't much care for digital cameras, I would buy one. The images I see from them are amazing.
But $7000 for a camera that only shoots black and white is about the most absurd thing I have ever heard. I don't care if the quality is incredible and all that crap. That's insane to me. If it were half that price I would still think it's ridiculous and would still personally never buy one, but I could at least understand why others who are more into b&w than I might.
It's a beautiful camera. I'm sure it's a joy to hold, and to use, and from the few sample images I've seen, it captures excellent quality photos. It is a Leica, after all.
But really? $7000? For a digital camera that doesn't even have the option of color? Sorry, Leica, this one's beyond me...
EDIT: Oops, I was off on the price. My mistake. It's $7,950! Yikes.
But $7000 for a camera that only shoots black and white is about the most absurd thing I have ever heard. I don't care if the quality is incredible and all that crap. That's insane to me. If it were half that price I would still think it's ridiculous and would still personally never buy one, but I could at least understand why others who are more into b&w than I might.
It's a beautiful camera. I'm sure it's a joy to hold, and to use, and from the few sample images I've seen, it captures excellent quality photos. It is a Leica, after all.
But really? $7000? For a digital camera that doesn't even have the option of color? Sorry, Leica, this one's beyond me...
EDIT: Oops, I was off on the price. My mistake. It's $7,950! Yikes.
braver
Well-known
You know, now that we're on the price of camera's.
A new Canon 1DX is 6500 euros. A Nikon D4 is over 6100. The M9M will be 6800. So really, how is the price of the M9M all that special when it's only marginally above the other top of the line maximum performance camera's? I know a D4 can do things the M9M can't but that also goes the other way around. Really, prices across the entire market have shifted upwards (just look at Fuji's new offerings), and Leica's M range is at the top but not in any way over the top if you look at the competition.
I don't have that kind of money, but evidently enough people do to sustain this market and these prices. I imagine a professional wedding photographer looking to expand his b&w portofolio will have a boat load of fun with this one.
A new Canon 1DX is 6500 euros. A Nikon D4 is over 6100. The M9M will be 6800. So really, how is the price of the M9M all that special when it's only marginally above the other top of the line maximum performance camera's? I know a D4 can do things the M9M can't but that also goes the other way around. Really, prices across the entire market have shifted upwards (just look at Fuji's new offerings), and Leica's M range is at the top but not in any way over the top if you look at the competition.
I don't have that kind of money, but evidently enough people do to sustain this market and these prices. I imagine a professional wedding photographer looking to expand his b&w portofolio will have a boat load of fun with this one.
I think the problem is that Canon and Nikon offer cheaper alternatives (5D MKIII / D800) that are still awesome cameras. Leica doesn't.
So the X2 or Vlux cameras are not awesome.
cfritze
Established
So can't the the MM be mimicked in software - tweak M9 output to resemble an MM? Re sharpness - write a RAW converter that instead of interpolating the bayer pattern into color treats each photowell as a separate datapoint. If one knows the chromatic response of the individual elements of the bayer color pattern on that sensor, wouldn't that give you the increased resolution of the MM on an M9 (in BW), plus allows you to mimic filters over BW film also?
So the X2 or Vlux cameras are not awesome.
Right. They aren't bad, but they are not slightly dumbed down M9s (as Canon and Nikon's 2nd level FF cameras are). They don't offer the versatility of the M.
tightsqueez
Well-known
Somewhere over the rainbow?
Somewhere over the rainbow?
Oh, don't tempt me! I'll get one just because you want one. Maybe I'll trade that Noctilux paperweight. Ha ha.
Actually, I do want one but more importantly would want one to WORK! Reliable digital cameras exist, as I have owned one before. But do I have to buy five or six at $7k - $8k a pop until I find the right one? Enough of Leica making me out to look like a sadist. :bang:
Somewhere over the rainbow?
So you going to get one Jay?
Oh, don't tempt me! I'll get one just because you want one. Maybe I'll trade that Noctilux paperweight. Ha ha.
Actually, I do want one but more importantly would want one to WORK! Reliable digital cameras exist, as I have owned one before. But do I have to buy five or six at $7k - $8k a pop until I find the right one? Enough of Leica making me out to look like a sadist. :bang:
Araakii
Well-known
We all want a lot of things in our lives. But shouldn't people realize that they don't always get what they want? What makes them think that they should get whatever they want at the prices they can afford?