what do you want rff to be?

CameraQuest said:
The line is decided on a thread by thread by basis.

Discussions, yes. Useless arguing, no.

Stephen
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Thanks for clarifying.
With this statement I think political discourse is still possible as it applies to photography or rather.. threads that involve photography and political issues.
It is reasonable enough as a way forward.
 
Highway 61 said:
And RFF is an international worldwide forum.
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No, RFF is a forum based in the USA. There are some international forum members, but we are in the minority.

The 'standards' should be those of discussion accepted in the USA. These are not the same as elsewhere (and also each 'elsewhere' isn't the same as another of course). Most stuff connected with societies, governments or political parties within RFF must be seen from the perspective of the USA.

I'm not making some sort of joke here. The only way to keep things consistent is to have one overview, else we will end up with threads being ok in one timezone but closed down when the next group of mods comes online a few hours later - that is a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea.
 
A photo of a soldier is posted.

Two possible comments...
1)the photographer risked his life to capture this amazing image.
2)the photographer risked his life to capture this amazing image of a soldier possibly throwing away his life to protect people who think he is garbage.

It is tricky... and we all know it.
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I fail to see the difficulty with either comment. It is tricky, but if the moderation here is to retain any degree of credibility, the error should be made on the side of allowing people to speak their minds.
 
I agree with what Andy said on the previous page. Diversity is what makes this site what it is. I am very interested in reading the opinions of others in countries geographically, politically, religiously, financially removed from little old New Zealand. Whether that is gear, photos or some major world event. I ignore the polls in the main. Not to concerned which is the best 35 Summilux but I am interested to see what like minded people around the world think of the new (insert name here). I am even interested in Joe's bag threads because you can't learn less and a good bag makes the experience more enjoyable in my mind.
But being righteous for the sake of it is annoying and if someone doesn't like a thread just don't read it and move on to one that you are happy with. Is a great site and I am here most days.
 
A photo of a soldier is posted.

Two possible comments...
1)the photographer risked his life to capture this amazing image.
2)the photographer risked his life to capture this amazing image of a soldier possibly throwing away his life to protect people who think he is garbage.

It is tricky... and we all know it.
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It is tricky. It's also important to continue understanding how to get to a less conflicted world. Some may not have the maturity yet to be part of the discussion. Others may have a recent subjective experience that makes it too emotional to continue in a civil manner.
It's my opinion that there are many here who have something important to say. I personally want to hear it.

Maybe there can be one forum heading for "tricky" subject.
It's been suggested before.

I expect that I myself am like others here. I don't come to RFF looking for political discourse. That said, my mind and opinion has been surprisingly opened up on occasion. I hope to continue to have that experience here.
 
I frankly find the political opinions of most people astonishing.

There could be someone with whom I correspond with for a long time, who is fascinating and with great knowledge of photo gear. I've known some of these people, and I respect their great intellect and curiosity. I post and communicate with them for years, even trade with them and buy their books.

But then one day a political subject comes up, and almost as if by a bolt out of the blue, this person starts a totally irrational and hateful barrage of comments about how a certain religion is actually ruling everyone in the world through the banks, or about how a certain defeated dictator was actually right, or how various historical events didn't actually happen. Or much worse.

Not just on this forum. I've found the same on many forums.

I am guilty of political posting myself, mostly to defend sanity and reality when someone goes off the reservation.

But due to my experience on several forums, I must reluctantly agree that the most successful forums are the most moderated forums.

Like the signs that hang in saloons......"No politics, no religion".

Better to remain on topic than to deteriorate into chaos.

And I don't want to be disappointed and angry at people I like to talk to. Maybe better to keep the masks on. Until the next time the store clerks become the camp guards again.
 
Boris Stupak said:
I am guilty of political posting myself, mostly to defend sanity and reality when someone goes off the reservation.
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Do not feel guilty of doing that. Never ever. As far as you do it with sincerity, intellectual honesty, and without being disrespectful towards other people's personalities, what's up ?

Just to say that we can sometimes analyse, comment, try to sum-up, and see things with some distance and perspective, without expressing any "politics" opinion. IMO the fact that (many) people behaved in a way or another during Thatcher's funeral has nothing to do with "politics" but with their personal feelings and what they and/or their families have gone through when she was PM. She was herself somebody not respecting people, especially modest people working hard and earning little. So, taking the decision to finance her funeral with some public funds was like pulling the trigger - and a very big mistake.

Of course there is always the possibility to have photos documenting such events posted in the "W/NW" subforum.

Moderating isn't an easy job...
 
Roger Hicks said:
Why add "on politics"? Why not just say "Hearing other people's opinions is a waste of time"?

Cheers,

R.
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Some people's opinions on politics can be pretty scary. Not so much the content, but the fact that it is not opinion at all, it's merely the views of their parents, or their favourite TV channel.

So, I do think that hearing some people's opinions is a waste of time, because you're not hearing opinions, you're getting regurgitated dogma.

Of course Roger, I get your sentiment, and I could not agree more. My only proviso is that the opinions actually have to be opinions.

Garry
 
While I did enjoy looking at the photos in the Thatcher thread, it bothered me on two counts. The whining (and eventual bickering, I gather) and the fact that it involved something for sale. The images posted there were simply free samples of something that is for sale. Posts that are selling something should be in the Classifieds. Posts that devolve into bickering should be moderated, as they have been several times in the years I've been visiting this site.

What I think RFF should be is a broad forum centered on rangefinder cameras and photography. I use mostly SLRs as well as scanners, view cameras, printers, digital cameras, folders, etc, and I'm glad that there are places to post and read about all that and more. Several pieces of my gear have found new homes thanks to the Classifieds here. Much better than Ebay or Craigslist for me.
 
Well, rff is a gear forum to me (clue is in the name), or at least that was what brought me here initially, after I was looking for information to buy my first rangefinder. That said, the reason I have stayed is the community and photo discussion here, as if it was only a gear forum, I would have drifted away long ago. As a place to find info on all sorts of quirky gear, rff is a tremendous success, and guess it inadvertently grew into more along the way.

Rff really is the most pleasant online photo forum I have found on the web, and it is for that reason, as well as the quality of the non-gear discussions here, that keep me returning. Its not perfect here, but then where is. I guess all in all personally, I would like to see rff remain a great site for thoughtful and valuable photographic discussion, as well as being everything else it primarily is as a gear site.
 
No need to change anything Joe. I think you are doing a great job.

I like rff, one of the places on the interweb with not too much OVERREACTION!!!!
(It is here too, but still)
 
If you want the discussion to be different or focused, it will limit the ability for it to have a culture of regulars. Which it has.

Every discussion forum I've ever been on (and I've been on many, for years, over the past couple of decades, since before the Eternal September settled over Usenet...) has gone through what RFF is going through: it has a nominal topic (photography and cameras), which gets people talking. After they've been here for a few years, the topics are pretty worn out.... but the regulars are all friends by now, and friends want to talk. And they still want to talk about cameras and photography some, but they also want to talk about random things.

Off-topic conversation is what will keep the community together. If that's a goal, then the best one can hope for is an ability to find the signal in the noise. I haven't had any trouble on that score, myself. It's not hard to not read every thread.
 
back alley said:
let's have a real discussion about rff.
what do you want it to be?

there are complaints that it's a gear site, complaints that it's not about photography...people want to discuss politics here...want to insult the jews and other ethnic groups...want to vent about flickr and call each other nasty names...

what do you want?
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It's good like it is.

Sure there are a few people here who like to argue meaningless points until they run out of oxygen and there is a little sniping in threads between individuals occasionally but it doesn't dominate the place. Most members enjoy the place for what it is and go about their business in a friendly helpful manner. You tend to notice the nasty stuff because it's not the norm and it stands out!

Apart from which as a group we display typical group dynamics in that we don't all get on with each other all the time ... nothing unusual there IMO.

The quality of the photography is what makes this place different ... try p.net and you'll soon find yourself drowning in over saturated, over processed images that will make your lip curl! The work here is generally very earthy and connected to realty by comparison IMO.
 
I just want it to be free...
set it free!!!!

BE FREE RFF!! RUN WILD !!!

Cheers,
Dave
 
Murchu said:
Well, rff is a gear forum to me (clue is in the name), or at least that was what brought me here initially, after I was looking for information to buy my first rangefinder. That said, the reason I have stayed is the community and photo discussion here, as if it was only a gear forum, I would have drifted away long ago. As a place to find info on all sorts of quirky gear, rff is a tremendous success, and guess it inadvertently grew into more along the way.

Rff really is the most pleasant online photo forum I have found on the web, and it is for that reason, as well as the quality of the non-gear discussions here, that keep me returning. Its not perfect here, but then where is. I guess all in all personally, I would like to see rff remain a great site for thoughtful and valuable photographic discussion, as well as being everything else it primarily is as a gear site.
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Dear Damien,

Highlight: seconded. I agree with the rest too, but that, to me, is the most important bit.

Cheers,

R.
 
As for politics ... I can live without having to deal with that stuff here ... it's everywhere else and little is achieved by hammering it within a camera/photography forum.
 
Well, you asked...

IMHO, I would like RFF to be even better than where it is right now, as a community of generally like-minded photographers who are a wonderful resource themselves. The community is what makes RFF so much different than others. Friends, mentors, colleagues, and younger-aged folks all are what make up this community of kind, knowledgeable, helpful, and caring people.

I have many friends here on RFF and if it were not for this forum, my life would be dismal. I have been on numerous forums for years but the quality of the people is what makes RFF special. Photography is what brought us together but it is the people who keep us here.:angel:

In this wild, free world of internet connections, I am delighted to be a part of a community where I have genuine friends on every continent in the world. Some I have gone to the expense, effort and travelling commitment to meet up with, most more than once. I learn from all of you and I hope to share what little I have to share in return.

How can RFF be better? Only YOU, no, WE can decide and make it so. But it takes continued renewal of treating each other genuinely with respect worthy of any friendship or worthwhile relationship. The Golden Rule actually.;) RFF is on the right track!

Politics? Religion? Any other hot topic? Slippery slopes require a lot of balance and care in discussions. It is possible, but what about unintended consequences? I have no idea.
 
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